Kaltxì, ma frapo!
Kezemplltxe, the excitement has begun to build, big time! I’m sure everyone reading this has now seen the teaser trailer for Uniltìrantokx: Fya’o Payä more than once.
As we’ve seen, there’s little dialog in the trailer. Only Jake speaks, and he says the following:
“I know one thing: Wherever we go, this family is our fortress.”
I suspect that members of the lì’fyaolo’ are all asking themselves the same question: What was the original Na’vi of this statement? 🙂
I was about to post my own answer to the question. But then I thought it would be interesting and fun to see what YOU all thought about it!
What do you think would be the most natural and idiomatic way to express in Na’vi what Jake has said? Feel free to post your answers in the comments, along with any explanation you’d like to share about how and why you came up with your version. In a subsequent blog post, we’ll discuss the results.
Note that you’ll need to use a new vocabulary item, since we haven’t yet seen the word for ‘fortress.’ This could be an entirely new root, or it could be derived from existing terms in the dictionary. (I have a simple word in mind, but I’d be interested to see what you think.)
Ayngeyä aysìralpengit ngop nì’o’!
Hayalovay . . .
ta Pawl
Kaltxì ma Pawl!
Such exciting times, your blog post comes just in time, hrh. I can’t even count anymore how often I’ve watched the trailer or had it’s music on repeat all night xD
I’ve actually translated that line from the trailer on my blog like so:
“Oel omum fì’ut (a): Ketsran tsengne (kä)… fìsoaia… lu zongtseng awngey.”
But it might be too boring or literal, komum. When I think of zongtseng, I think of a castle or something from medieval times, hrh.
“Oel omum fì’ut (a): Ketsran tsengne (kä)… fìsoaia… lu kelku awngey.” might work better.
Komum, it’s not very idiomatic, right? Well, I tried and failed, hrh 😀
A new word… fpivìl…
Zongku? Zong + kelku…
Maybe zongong / zonong, or zong’ong, from either zong + ramunong or zong + ‘ong.
That’s all I’ve got, ngaytxoa xD
–
Oh, one thing that just jumped back into my mind… if I may add one short unrelated question:
On Kelutral we discussed whether or not you can use ke with kefyak. All 17 examples of sentences you’ve used with kefyak did not use ke to negate the verb (Wllìm did that research, hrh), and your elaborate and very helpful blog post about “Negative Questions in Na’vi” didn’t clear this one up for some people.
For example, uhm…
“Nga ke holahaw txonam, kefyak?”, would that be possible? I’m fine with using it without ke, but I wanted to check for those who would love to know whether this is “legal” or not 😀
Irayo nìli ulte Eywa ngahu!
Addendum:
I think Jake very clearly doesn’t mean anything like a literal fortress-like building or castle or RDA facility when he says “fortress”. He means a place of strength, a bond between beings, that gives (emotional) security and comfort, like a family that sticks together, no matter the odds or challenges it would have to face. A place of belonging, unity and support and a home. That’s where my usage of “zongtseng, kelku” and word proposals are coming from. 🙂
Kxì, ma Eana Unil.
Ngeyä tìpawmìri a teri tsalì’u alu kefyak irayo.
I think of “kefyak” as being similar to certain question tags in English and other languages—English: “right?” “correct?” “isn’t that so?”; French: “n’est-ce pas?”; Spanish: “¿verdad?”; German: “nicht wahr?” etc. These tags ask the listener to confirm that the statement just made by the speaker, which the speaker believes to be true, is in fact correct.
To my knowledge, there’s no restriction in the familiar languages I mentioned as to whether the statement in question is positive or negative. For example, I believe you can say in German (and please let me know if I’m wrong!) both
(1) Du hast letzte Nacht geschlafen, nicht wahr?
’You slept last night, right?’
‘You slept last night, isn’t that so?’
and
(2) Du hast letzte Nacht nicht geschlafen, nicht wahr?
’You didn’t sleep last night, right?’
‘You didn’t sleep last night, isn’t that so?’
(Ma E.U., as a native German speaker, do the two occurrences of “nicht” in (2) bother you at all, or does the sentence sound perfectly natural?)
So I don’t see why Na’vi shouldn’t allow the same kinds of things. “Nga ke holahaw txonam, kefyak?” sounds fine to me. 😊
Comments on the trailer translation to come . . .
Kaltxì ma Pawl,
tì’eyngìri ngeyä irayo nìtxan! This clears up some confusion for good and in a very helpful and comprehensible way 😀
Ngaru tìyawr, both versions would be totally valid and fine to use in German. 2x “nicht” sounds repetitive at the very first moment of hearing a sentence, worded in such a way, but not unnatural at all, at least to my ears. More like you wanted to emphasize that the person in fact did not sleep last night, if that makes sense.
Again, thanks so much for taking your time and giving us your thoughts on this, it is very much appreciated 😀
Ulte fmawnìri a teri tsatìralpeng srefereiey nìprrte’.
Hayalovay!
Kaltxì ma Karyu Pawl,
I’ll give it a try: Oel omum fì’ut nìpxi: ayoeri ketsran tsengne kä, fìsoaia lu yokx.
Of course, replace yokx with whichever word you may have coined.
Hayalovay!
Sorry I didn’t read your instructions completely. I’d like to submit a version with a coined word: Oel omum fì’ut nìpxi: ayoeri ketsran tsengne kä, fìsoaia lu txurtseng.
– I used nìpxi to put emphasis on the “thing” Jake knows.
– ayoeri “covers” the entire sentence. It’s the subject of kä, it’s our family and it’s our fortress.
– The idiom with ketsran is perfect for this sentence (I found your post about ketsran)
– Txurtseng is the coined wrong which comes from “tìtxurnga’a tseng”, a strong place, since the etymology of fortress is about strength. However, I also like Eana’s zongku.
hìtxoa, wrong -> word
My attempt:
Omum oel ‘awa fì’ut a ketsrana kantsengmì, fìsoaia lu awngeyä zongtseng.
“I know this one thing, that at no matter which destination, this family is our refuge.”
Notes:
* I think zongtseng conveys quite well the meaning of “fortress”, i.e., a “safe place” protected from attacks.
* Bonus grammar question: I’m not sure if one can contact ‘awa fì’ut a to ‘awa futa. It sounds a bit strange to my ears to have an adjective attached to futa …
I actually asked that question ones to Pawl, and he told me that adjectives cannot go on f-words
My attempt at this translation:
Omum oel futa ketsrana tseng a kä awnga tsawne, fìsoaia lu tìtxur awngeyä
I went with “tìtxur” because I felt like “fortress” is more of an English-ified form of something else written in Na’vi.
Alternatively, I had this other idea:
Omum oel futa ne ketsrenge* awnga kä, fisoaia lu tìtxur
Where “ketsrenge*” comes from “ketsrana tsenge”, though I’m not sure how the exact contraction would occur, or even if it would occur. I also felt that “fìsoaia lu tìtxur”, literally “this family is strength”, would be a good idiomatic way of conveying “this family is our fortress”. Feel free to tear this one apart though, just some ideas I had while thinking about this xD
Or even the shortened version *ketsreng
My attempt: “Omum oel ‘awa ‘u, alu awnga kä ketsran tsengne, fìsoaia lu kelhawn awngeyä.”
With “kelhawn” as the new word, from kelku “house/home” and hawnu “protect/shelter”. I considered using kxuke “safe” (ie kelkxuke) as a root, but hawnu felt more accurate – a fortress is a place that actively provides protection, not just a place that passively is safe. (I also considered using tsenge instead of kelku, and I think either one could work in the general sense of the word “fortress,” but in this context specifically kelku felt better, and it provides more of a connotational distinction from zongtseng.)
I considered deliberately used English word order for most of this, because it’s Jake speaking and not someone whose first language was Na’vi, but I figure after thirteen years he’s probably picked up the Na’vi word order habits 😛 So instead I ordered it “alu awnga kä ketsran tsengne” to place emphasis on the “no matter where” part of that phrase.
But, that’s just my stab at it and I’m nowhere near fluency in this language yet, so.
Irayo, ma frapo! Thanks to everyone who’s responded so far. We have some excellent suggestions! Rather than commenting on individual submissions, I’ll wait a bit longer for some more to come in, and then I’ll discuss the results in a general blog post. Tsakrrvay . . .
Kaltxì! This seems fun 🙂
If I were to use the words we already have, I’d suggest (with soaia intentionally last in the sentence for extra weight):
“Am’aluke nìwotx omum oel fì’ut, a ketsran tseng a tok awngal, awngeyä tìtxur / tswal / zongtseng lu soaia.”
It’s a hard one since we aren’t really sure of the context, but I believe he could be talking about strengths, which is why I chose “tìtxur” or “tswal”. If it’s about surviving a huge change or similarly, I’d rather go for “zongtseng”, because the connection that a family has would bring comfort and shelter. I also used “zongtseng” and not an entirely new word because I think it translates “fortress” well enough.
I’m not sure if I can put a comma between “fì’ut” and “a”, but it’s just to signalize the pause. I think with a pause, “fì’ut a” would be more pleasing to the ears than a “futa”. I also think “tok” would fit better than “kä ne..”, because to me the meaning is more about “wherever you are, family will be here for you”, and not “wether you are travelling or not”.
Kaltxì ma karyu! Wou! Fìfmawn lu txantsan nìwotx! Oe new kivä ne Eyweveng set nìwotx!
Here is my attempt
Oel omum ‘awa ‘uti. Ketsran tsenge a ayoeng kivä ne, fìsoaia lu ayoengä kelhawnu.
Kelhawnu: kelku (house) noun hawnu (protect) verb. House of protection
I too had translated it aready with zongtseng:
Omum oel ‘ut a’aw: awngari ketsran tsengne kivä, lu fìsoaia zongtseng.
Or…
Ketsran tsengne awnga kivä, lu fìsoaia awngeyä zongtseng.
I think -iv- infix is needed with ketsran. Alternatives to zongtseng: tìslan, tìtxur, tìhawnu. If really needing a new word for ‘fortress’, I’d vote hawntseng or txurtseng. 🙂
Fì’ut a’aw oel omum, alu ketsran tsengne kä, stìng awngeyä fìsoaia leiu.
Forgive me for using “stìng” for fortress. It was too tempting to resist. (Fortress Around Your Heart by Sting from The Dream of the Blue Turtles, 1985 may be my favorite song.)
All silliness aside, I like hawnkelku best so far, I think.
Hi, I’d use hawntsray or hawnolo’ or related to tsray + zong. Or something like fpomtsim, or related to mawey or me’em. Or it may also be related to hawnu + fya’o thing (or hawnu + sä’o).
Actually, I just thought about swotu out of a reason.
I had another thought on it:
Omum oel nì’aw futa ketsran kemo liven, tsranten fìsoaia nì’aw.
So many wonderful suggestions and possibilities to convey a statement. 🙂
I agree with EanaUnil, my first thought was also zongtseng with the existing vocabulary we have. The question for me is,
(1) ‘Do the Na’vi (specifically the Omatikaya) know or have a word for ‘fortress’?’, i.e., a fortified place, a stronghold, a bulwark. Judging from the first movie, they may have sentinels and watchers, warriors and hunters but Hometree as is was a rather ‘open’ structure. It didn’t appear fortified to me. I’d say Hell’s Gate is fortified and here we have the word txintseng as a military base of operation to translate that concept.
(2) ‘If the Na’vi have a word for ‘fortress,’ do they use it metaphorically—as we do—for a place of security?’ To me that’s very much feasible.
In our discussion there was also the (quite interesting) question whether Jake and Neytiri are supposed to speak Na’vi with each other in this scene and it’s just in English for the audience’s sake (cf. most sci-fi shows on alien ships/planets), or is Jake really talking in his native language?
Be that as it may, in the metaphorical sense of a ‘safe place, stronghold of values and familiar bonds’ I’d be totally happy with the word zongtseng in this context.
If there is to be a word for fortress I derive it from the wonderful word ‘bulwark’ (German Bollwerk), *ekxakxemyo (from ekxan + kxemyo) ‘a barricade wall (against something)’
I rest my case 🙂
Omg hi, this is my first time posting here!! 🙂 it’s so exciting to finally have the sequel in sight! I’ve been learning Na’vi since 2010 and the Na’vi language is such a comfort to me, so thank you ma Karyu Pawl for all that you do! :’)
Here’s my go:
Omum nì’aw oel futa – awngari fratsengne sivop, tìmong lu fìsoaia.
Not a direct translation but…just thought I’d put something weird out there idk?? Even though I know the word ketsran exists…hrh…I think I just wanted to use as few words as possible.
Glad I wasn’t the only one who immediately thought about translating that phrase into Na’vi.
While I’m still a novice and hadn’t put the whole sentence together yet, it did make me wonder something that I wanted to ask here to see if anyone knows. Are there augmentives in Na’vi? I ask because I was thinking about taking the word for Camp and then augmenting it and using that for Fortress.
Kaltxì, ma Tsa’lukan.
Zola’u nìprrte’ pìlokne! And thanks for the suggestion.
Na’vi uses txan, which by itself is an adjective meaning ‘much,’ as an augmentative or intensifying prefix. (It sometimes appears as txam- or txa-, and the base word can be modifed as well.) It’s not freely productive, however; txan-words have to be listed in the dictionary. Some examples are:
tsawl ‘big’
txantsawl ‘giant’
pay ‘water’
txampay ‘ocean, sea’
sunu ‘be enjoyable’
txasunu ‘be tremendously enjoyable’
tsray ‘village’
tsawltsray ‘small city’
txantsawltsray ‘metropolis’
So yes, txan’awm ‘great camp’ is certainly a possibility as a new lexical item. What’s not clear is whether the word would convey the sense of strength and security we expect in a fortress, or whether it would simply imply a large size.
Aside talkings about the trailer, what is the future of Na’vi language? Will it be used in the upcoming movies or will it be completely out of them?
Let me give a try myself (based upon previous, older posts of this inspiring blog)…
“Tsaria teynga tsengpe zivene kivä ke tsranten, awngari (tsalsungay) tìslan aseykxel leiu fìsoaia, oe ’efu am’ake nìwotx!”
is my wordy version of the original sentence: “I know one thing: Wherever we go, this family is our fortress.” But I think is quite idiomatic, even though it seems complicated from an English speaker perspective.
Let me defend the wordiness: for Jake to be able to utter such a beautiful ,poetic sentence this means he did mastered Na`vi and people listening that could deeply impressed not only be the message but also by his mastery of their native language.
You may notive I have used “tìslan aseykxel” (or seykxela tìslan) instead of fortress, because for me that idea is about a strong spiritual and emotional support for us to be able not only to protect ourselves, but also to do anything else we need and want.